Bowsprit questions

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Bowsprit questions

Postby rick_bradshaw » Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:37 pm

Was out looking for a "strong point" on the bowsprit to attach port and starboard rings to attach a snatch block. Still not satisfied with anything I've thought of so far. Any ideas on that?

What I did find was 4 holes (each side) in the SS bowsprit platform mount that are not filled. The platform is held in place by thru bolts from top to bottom. The horizontal locations are not quite in line with the verticle but don't miss it far. Drilling that would undoubtedly weaken the bowsprit. So, adding "strong point" rings (above) to that would certainly -not- work at all. But, -why- were the holes put there in the first place? Would seem like it is an "accident" waiting to happen. Is ours the only one to have these unfilled spaces?

Thanks.
Rick

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Postby warmrain » Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:04 am

The Hansa boats have their platforms held in places by athwartship bolts...

I don't know why yours was done the way it was.

Tell us what you intend to use the snatch blocks for and we may be able to offer more assistance...

~Cars
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Built by Hansa Yacht und Schiffbau G.M.B.H. Taichung Taiwan by Herb Guttler (last Hansa hull was #131, built 1987)

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spinnaker

Postby apropos43 » Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:56 pm

Similar question about where to attach an asymmetrical spinnaker on my HC43 cutter/ketch. I currently attach the spinnaker (which has a 2' long wire rope with a shackle) to a hole in the ss plate that holds the jib furler. This isn't ideal because the wire rope sometimes gets hung up on the ss frame (pulpit?) when jibing. There is a small ss ring welded to the top center of the pulpit but I didn't think that was strong enough for a spinnaker attachment, even though it seems like the ideal place to attach the shackle. What does everyone else do?
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Postby warmrain » Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:06 pm

We have a becket block on the cranze iron. The becket provies the attach point for the Genoa tack pennant and the block provides the fairlead for an adjustable tack line for the asym. chute.

~Cars
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Postby apropos43 » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:18 pm

In the pic, is the pennant the tack of the spinnaker or is it set up for a gennoa? Where does the line coming off the block go to? If the spinnaker tack is aft of the forestay, wouldn't that interfere with the spinnaker operation? I probably don't understand the pic....
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Postby warmrain » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:30 pm

"In the pic, is the pennant the tack of the spinnaker or is it set up for a gennoa?
The pennant line that comes from the becket of the block, the lifeline material, is the tack like for the genoa. It allows the foot of the genoa to clear the bow pulpit as was designed by the sailmaker. It was shortened when the block was placed there. It terminates in a swivel snap shackle just like the Genoa halyard.

Where does the line coming off the block go to?
The line leading aft goes along the inside of the bulwark behind the stanchions and thru fairleads between the stanchions. It is ru much the same way that a roller furling drum line would be run. It goes clear to the cockpit allowing that tack to be adjusted so the tack of the asym chute can be raised and lowered to match the clew height as you come onto or fall off of the wind. It is situated so that it can be used on the secondary (staysail sheet) winch.

If the spinnaker tack is aft of the forestay, wouldn't that interfere with the spinnaker operation?
No. And furthermore the pic show the tack line in its stowed position inside the pullpit when in use the line to the asym chut is run underneath the pulpit and is then forward of it when attached to the asym chute.

I probably don't understand the pic....
Hopefully that has changed... :)

~Cars
Yacht "Warmrain" 1986 HC33T #123
Built by Hansa Yacht und Schiffbau G.M.B.H. Taichung Taiwan by Herb Guttler (last Hansa hull was #131, built 1987)

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Postby apropos43 » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:27 pm

Now it's clear! Thanks for the pic and explanation, can't wait to go out and try it out. Just a few more questions... When using the chute, is the block held up only by the spinnaker tack or do you attach the pennant line somewhere to support the block? Where are your staysail winches located? Mine are under the dodger near the main winch. My jib winches are along the bulwark further aft. Just wondering how to get the spinnaker downhaul to a secondary winch if I run the line along the bulwark.

We just returned from a 9-day trip to the San Juan Islands. Have you been cruising this summer?
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Postby warmrain » Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:04 am

The genoa tack pennant remains attached to the genoa tack.
There is plenty of tension on the asym chute to keep the block upright and the tack line running fair.

We have not been crusing this summer (yet?) due to an engine problem.
http://www.hanschristian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=3687

We are currently on Bainbridge Island and have lived in Friday Harbor 10 years before this. Maybe returning this year.

Our staysail is loose footed... the winches are mounted next to the primaries on the comming. You may find that a cleat is sufficient...

Best, Cars
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Postby rick_bradshaw » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:40 pm

The original need for a strong point was to find a way to run the rode for a sea anchor out to a large snatch block that would be fixed to that strong point. I'm not sure that is the best thing at present and have since thought that perhaps it would be best to run it through one of the fairleads. With appropriate chafe gear of course. Not sure if that is the best idea either but that is the way I would do it if I were to need it at present. Any other ideas?

I like what I see in the pics and the explanation for it. Will have to file it away for future reference. BTW, were your secondaries always where they are now located or did you install them there after the fact?
Rick

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1987 HC 33T #136
http://la-vita.us/blog/
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Postby warmrain » Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:44 pm

The got the boat new and it was setup for a club footed staysail, but no winches were installed.

We traded the club for another #17 Barient and this is the standard place they are mounted by HC yachts with the staysail is configured for free footed flying.

We were once towed... The tow company shackled a long loop of braid through the forward hause holes, around the back of the anchor bits and forward of the bobstay. from this "bridal" they attached a tow line. That is by far the strongest part of the boat to put forces on.

I am concerned about anchoring from the end of the bowsprit due to potential down forces on the sprit in a storm or swell. That may or may not be the case with a sea anchor. It is amazing how fast things chafe in a storm... Consider that also...

I wonder how the boat would lay to a sea anchor lead from one hause pipe... would she lay too far off to one side...?

~Cars
Yacht "Warmrain" 1986 HC33T #123
Built by Hansa Yacht und Schiffbau G.M.B.H. Taichung Taiwan by Herb Guttler (last Hansa hull was #131, built 1987)

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Postby rick_bradshaw » Sat Oct 10, 2009 3:23 pm

My thoughts too. The end of the bowsprit seems to be less strong than further back. Was thinking of something in the area of the anchor rollers where I could attach a snatch block to route the line safely over the side and have less chafe.

I think that she would swing around more to the bow than side if led through the hawse pipe. A bridle of sorts from the main rode to the cockpit might help with attitude control in relation to the seas.

Never having done it, these are just planning thoughts. Chafe through the hawse pipe is the big thing. It would be in constant contact. Not good.
Rick

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Postby warmrain » Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:34 pm

Where ever you go it is going to be in constant contact. The hawse hole is smooth at least... You would do well to arm yourself with used fire hose!
~Cars
Yacht "Warmrain" 1986 HC33T #123
Built by Hansa Yacht und Schiffbau G.M.B.H. Taichung Taiwan by Herb Guttler (last Hansa hull was #131, built 1987)

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Postby rick_bradshaw » Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:38 pm

Got at least 50 feet of it but it is the single thickness kind. Wasn't able to find the double thickness kind last time I was in the states.
Rick

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1987 HC 33T #136
http://la-vita.us/blog/
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Postby warmrain » Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:56 pm

For the places I have a known chafe location I use leather and then a fire hose over that... I use a leather punch to put a hole at each end of hte fire hose and use a 1/8" dacron line to position the fire hose to a place on the line (easier with 3-strand).

~Cars
Yacht "Warmrain" 1986 HC33T #123
Built by Hansa Yacht und Schiffbau G.M.B.H. Taichung Taiwan by Herb Guttler (last Hansa hull was #131, built 1987)

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Re: Bowsprit questions

Postby Bill » Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:29 am

Jim, On our 43' we use a similar set up to that on Warm Rain. The difference is that our shackle is large enough to go around the headstay (which is in the front hole of the cranz iron) and attach to the secondary hole in the cranz. The tack is then connected at Warm Rains but there is no interference from the head stay. We still tack our spinnaker by pulling the sock, shifting and re-setting. The reason we do this is because we have always had trouble with the lazy sheet dragging in the water. By socking the spin we only use a single sheet. Of course we aren't racing and usually just want to use the spinnaker in Ron Popeil mode, ie, Set it and Forget it.
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