Searching for new, rebuilt or rebuildable injection pump 3QM

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Searching for new, rebuilt or rebuildable injection pump 3QM

Postby warmrain » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:09 pm

I am searching for a new, rebuilt or rebuildable injection pump for a Yanmar 3QM30. The only part number that works is 721370-51700.

If anyone has a suggestion of where to look please let me know.

Best, ~Cars
Yacht "Warmrain" 1986 HC33T #123
Built by Hansa Yacht und Schiffbau G.M.B.H. Taichung Taiwan by Herb Guttler (last Hansa hull was #131, built 1987)

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Injection Pump

Postby mitchk » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:40 pm

I am guessing that these pumps are no longer available? It seems that the older these 3QM30's get the less parts are available for them. It would be nice if you could find one to re-build and swap it out with the one in your engine now.
Mitch and Deb Karlson
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Postby bruadair » Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:32 pm

A couple years ago I saw a 3QM30F for sale, in good running condition, for $1500. Now I'm thinking it would have been a good idea to buy just to have for spare parts. It's a shame that some of the parts are no longer being made if that's the case, there's a lot of these engines out there still running strong.

Steve, let us know if you find a source,
D&D
s/v Bruadair
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Exploring the Western Caribbean,
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Postby bruadair » Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:32 pm

Steve,

I've just heard back from my two Yanmar parts sources, and as you probably already know, the fuel injection pump is no longer available. Is this a pump that can be rebuilt by a professional or are we up a creek?
D&D
s/v Bruadair
1984 Hans Christian 33T #58
Exploring the Western Caribbean,
Currently resting in Bocas del Toro, Panama
www.sv-bruadair.blogspot.com
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Postby warmrain » Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:38 pm

I just saw a complete 3QM30 for $3500...

I believe it can be rebuilt. The deal is the 35-40 year old design is not intended for the very low sulpher (lubricant) fuels we have now. Yanmar is (according to my mechanic) recommending Stanadyne as a lubricant/conditioner/cetane enhancer for these engines.

~Cars
Yacht "Warmrain" 1986 HC33T #123
Built by Hansa Yacht und Schiffbau G.M.B.H. Taichung Taiwan by Herb Guttler (last Hansa hull was #131, built 1987)

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Postby bruadair » Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:35 am

Sounds like a good price, is it local? Do you know what it would cost to rebuild it? We've been toying with the idea of repowering but as good as our 3QM is running we can't justify it yet. There's not much of a market in Latin America for used marine diesel engines, if we were back in the states and I could get $4k then I would think again about repowering, brings the cost back towards budget.

I can still kick myself for not buying the 3QM I saw a year or two back for $1500, would have made a great parts engine. A friend of ours down here also has a 3QM30F in his Tayana 37, he's been thinking about repowering so maybe if I hang around him long enough I'll finally get my affordable and hard to find spares.

Are you at the point right now where you need to replace your 3QM30F?
D&D
s/v Bruadair
1984 Hans Christian 33T #58
Exploring the Western Caribbean,
Currently resting in Bocas del Toro, Panama
www.sv-bruadair.blogspot.com
Bruadair is now for sale, more at
www.hanschristianforsale.blogspot.com
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Postby warmrain » Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:55 am

Just 1300 hours on our 3QM30FG and I am loathe to give it up. we found a spare injector pump (even though I don't know yet that is the problem) and wel will do our best to keep this one alive.

I forgot where I saw the used 3QM30 or where it was, maybe it was on boatdiesel.com

The deal with the old engines, designed for the fuel of the day, was that the fuel we are getting now is so low in sulpher (sulpher being a lubricant) that the injection pumps (which are fuel lubed) as wearing.

According to one Yanmar dealer Yanmar is recommending using a product called Stanadyne to condition the fuel, add back the lubricating properties and also enhance the cetane.

Best, Cars
Yacht "Warmrain" 1986 HC33T #123
Built by Hansa Yacht und Schiffbau G.M.B.H. Taichung Taiwan by Herb Guttler (last Hansa hull was #131, built 1987)

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Postby bruadair » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:31 am

I took a look at Stranadyne, looks like a good product. Unfortunately for me I don't think I can ship it to Colombia (hazardous cargo?). There's a boat store there so I might see what I can find as far as additives go, hopefully a good lubricant. I didn't know about the low sulfur content in today's diesel, thanks for sharing. I want to make sure I do everything I can to ensure the longest life for my Yanmar.
D&D
s/v Bruadair
1984 Hans Christian 33T #58
Exploring the Western Caribbean,
Currently resting in Bocas del Toro, Panama
www.sv-bruadair.blogspot.com
Bruadair is now for sale, more at
www.hanschristianforsale.blogspot.com
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Update

Postby warmrain » Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:09 pm

I have heard that Yanmar obsoleted the pump in January of 2006 and there are no pumps to be found. While we beleive ours is rebuildable we desire a spare (and we think we have found one) because we do some offshore cruising and inshore cruising to very remote and desolate areas.

Also it is our understanding that though fuel injection pump generally can last the life of hte engine, that engines designed 40 or so years ago relied onthe high sulpher content of the then current fuels to lubricate the pump. Todays fuels don't have that sulpher and the old pumps wear.

We have been told that a product called Stanadyne is designed to replace the lubricating properties of the sulpher without adding sulpher, additionally it is a fuel conditioner and cetane booster.

If our pump where not rebuildable and if there were no cores to be found we would have been faced with a re-engine. Something that seems ridiculoius for an engine with 1300 hours (despite the fact that is 25 years old).

~Cars
Yacht "Warmrain" 1986 HC33T #123
Built by Hansa Yacht und Schiffbau G.M.B.H. Taichung Taiwan by Herb Guttler (last Hansa hull was #131, built 1987)

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3QM30

Postby mitchk » Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:30 pm

I am seriously considering repowering, I am looking at the Beta Marine 38HP, have taken all the measurements and it lookd like it will fit with room to spare. If anyone were interested in my 3QM30/KH18a I would consider selling it. The engine is in great shape and runs quiet and strong, transmission is in good shape as well but has a very slow leak in one of the seals. This engine would probably last me for years to come but I would feel safer with an engine that I could get parts far and the extra HP would be nice as well.
Mitch and Deb Karlson
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1986 HC33T #104
Seabrook, Texas
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Postby warmrain » Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:08 pm

Throw out an asking price then...

Consider in the total cost of replacement the changing of the engine beds and such. I am not familiar with the "Beta", but consider also the commonality of the engine with regard to world wide parts availability... For example have you considered a newer Yanmar product...

~Cars
Last edited by warmrain on Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yacht "Warmrain" 1986 HC33T #123
Built by Hansa Yacht und Schiffbau G.M.B.H. Taichung Taiwan by Herb Guttler (last Hansa hull was #131, built 1987)

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Engine

Postby mitchk » Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:49 pm

Yes a new Yanmar is on my list and I really like them. The Beta Marine is built on a standard Kubota Block, parts availability is good worldwide. Havent decided yet but I will be considering a new yanmar as well. It will be a while before we do anything, still working on several other projects on the boat. Next one will probably be removing, painting and re-wiring the mast and boom.
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Postby bruadair » Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:30 pm

Hi Mitch,

We too had looked into repowering at one time but for us we've decided to wait until it becomes necessary. We had considered the Yanmar but spare parts are expensive. We liked the Beta Marina with it's Kuboto block and parts availability, we also liked how affordable the parts are. Another engine we looked at and don't hear much about is the Nanni Marine, also on a Kuboto block. A couple of months ago we had asked for quote and Nanni was very responsive to all our questions. It's basically very similar to the Beta Marine and parts are available world wide. It's amazing how much smaller in physical size and lighter they are compared to the 3QM. Nanni also included a new prop in their quote where Beta Marine did not.

When repowering don't forget that there's a lot that will need changing. New prop, engine bed modification, with a larger engine will fuel line & pick up tube sizes need to be increased? Will the size of the exhaust hose need to be increased? There's so much involved with repowering it can be mind numbing.

The biggest obstacle for us was finding an engine that would line up with the propeller shaft. On all new engines the output coupling is centerline with crankshaft, this is not so on the 3QM30 where the output coupling is lower than the crankshaft. So that means the new engine would have to sit lower which may require some modification to the engine bed.

I guess it would be fair for me to say that I'm waiting for someone else to repower so I can learn from their installation. Mitch, I think you should throw out a price and see what happens. There will probably be some interest.
D&D
s/v Bruadair
1984 Hans Christian 33T #58
Exploring the Western Caribbean,
Currently resting in Bocas del Toro, Panama
www.sv-bruadair.blogspot.com
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Postby warmrain » Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:08 pm

Yes, all the new lighter diesels, Yanmar included, obtain their horsepower through increased RPM.

Consider also the angle at which the new engine requires for normal operation, the short-shaft installation of the 3QM puts it just a degree or two from the maximum "at rest" installation limit and our often exceeds the maximum angle while running in very steep seas (climbing the waves). You know this when the oil pressure horn bleeps as you climb the wave even when the oil is at the fill line (which also is a false reading due to the angle, we fill to the top of the flat part of the dipstick).

I suspect the exhaust for a modestly larger engine HP would be sufficient, but the Hansa installed lift tube is already undersized for the 3QM at 1/4" (Yanmar specified 3/8").

~Cars

P.S. We found one fuel injection pump. All you old Yanmar owners: add Stanadyne or some other fuel additive that replaces the lubricating properties of the sulpher that no longer is part of modern fuels (at least in the US).
Yacht "Warmrain" 1986 HC33T #123
Built by Hansa Yacht und Schiffbau G.M.B.H. Taichung Taiwan by Herb Guttler (last Hansa hull was #131, built 1987)

Posts are my opinion based on my experience; your results may vary from mine.
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Postby mimoza » Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:47 pm

Regarding Stanadyne, see my new post on that other thread:
>> Yanmar 3QM30FG runs strong for 30 minutes then slowly dies
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