Light Air Sail Options

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Light Air Sail Options

Postby sv_bruadair » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:58 pm

It appears that most of our sailing has been in winds much lighter than we anticipated, something we were not prepared for. Our sail inventory consists of the Main, 120% Genoa, Staysail, and Storm Jib.

In exploring light wind sails we have decided that a drifter or cruising chute with sock would be a nice addition to our sail inventory, the drifter being the preference.

So I'm wondering what is the best way to attach the drifter to the HC33, and where? We are considering two options for the drifter. Free luff, being raised by the spinnaker halyard, but where is the best place to attach it to the deck? this link will show what I'm trying to descibe http://www.northsails.com/north_america ... s/G0QA.htm

The other option, and our preference, is to attach the drifter to a removable roller furling unit. While the sail is attached to the roller furling unit it too would be raised by the spinnaker halyard, but we can't figure out the best place to attach the roller furling unit on deck (or bowsprit). This link will show this idea http://svmirador.net/drifter.htm

I would really be interested in hearing from those that are using a drifter or cruising chute on any of the HCs and how the attachment to deck was made. And also from those considering doing this as well.

Thanks!
Damon and David
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Postby johnrobinson » Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:43 pm

Damon; We have a cruising chute (asymetrial spinnaker) that we can use for broad reaching and running and really like it. It's hoisted in a sock (or snuffer) on the spinnaker halyard. The tack is attached to a line that runs through a block on the end of the bowsprit and aft tot he cockpit so we can control the set and the luff of the sail from the cockpit. On our 43T is is a large sail so we have found that the easiest way to jibe it is to douse it with the sock . . shift to the lazy sheet and re-set it. They are very useful and versitile sails. Ours was made by the Schaettaur brothers her ein Seattle and is designed for offshore use.

Regards, John Robinson, s/v Crossings, 43T
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Postby dino » Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:21 pm

Hey there Damon,

Not that it helps much but I've been playing with the drifter we have. It actually has a taped on luff that just slips into the foil of the furler. I wish it was loose, I like the idea of having the yankee on the furler and pull out the drifter as needed.

Another thing that would make things easier is having some turning blocks further aft for a better sheeting angle, but the sail works real nice.

I'll see if I can dig up some pictures.
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Postby sv_bruadair » Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:11 pm

John,

Thanks for the photos and description, definately a good idea.

Dino,

What's up? I remember sailing with you on the bay with your drifter, I like it a lot. I agree that having a loose luff might be better, I would hate to have to change my headsails all the time. We are considering a cruising chute with sock but I like the idea of the drifter as it would allow us to point further into the wind. Our trip from Providencia to San Andreas was in winds of about 5 knots just forward of beam. I think the Drifter would suit out needs better but if a good deal on a cruising chute is presented we might take that too.

While we've been here in Panama for almost a month now we have not seen any winds greater than 10 knots, usually averaging around 5 knots. I would hate to have to motor to all these beautiful places.

Good point on having turning blocks further aft, I'll have to start thinking about that too.

Thanks for the ideas guys,
Damon and David
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1984 HC33 #58
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Postby warmrain » Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:09 pm

You've got some good replies already...

We love the free luff assymetrical crusing chute in a sock... THE best sock is the ATN period! We have had two other miserable socks...

Jibing can be accomplished by:
1: running a very long lazy sheet ahead of the forstay
2: dousing with the sock and pushing it around, forward of the headstay.

An adjustable tack line lets you trim for reaching or running. Generally we place the tack near the same height as the clew, except when reaching when it is pulled rather tight. Our tack line runs to the cockpit and doubles as a genoa downhaul. To keep from binding the top hank on the genoa requires a pennant line as described by photos...

Pictures post in reverse order of attachment...

John, Why?
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Postby johnrobinson » Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:29 pm

Damon;

I second Steve's note that the ATN sock (snuffer, what ever you want to call it) is definaly the best . . . easy to douse the sail even when its still loaded with wind . . .

Steve; why what ??

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Postby warmrain » Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:36 pm

You try and post pics to describe a scenario... but they end up in the message in the reverse order they were added to the post... That's why what...! :?
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Postby Bill » Sat Apr 28, 2007 1:27 pm

Damon,

One last opinion. We have had both asymetrical spins and a reacher drifter on another boat. The option to not have either sail on the foil is definately worth while.
Personally I think I preferred the drifter with an integral wire stay. In light winds it worked exactly like our genoa only better. Off the wind we poled it out for dead down wind runs. Having the sail off the foil allowed us to run both the drifter and the genoa which produced an incredible amount of canvas for the size boat we were sailing.
I haven't seen the ATN sock, but if it is built similar to our current spinaker sock (a wire hoop that pulls over the sail), I would have to say that a drifter will store in about 50% - 75% of the space that the same size a-sym will.

Either sail is well worth the investment though when the going gets light.

Bill
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Postby warmrain » Sat Apr 28, 2007 1:36 pm

The great thing anout the ATN sock is that it is NOT a wire loop, but a kevlar bell that doesn't get hung up on the sail. It does take space though, ours lives in a turtle bag on the deck (with head and clews chained to the boat).
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Postby sv_bruadair » Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:11 pm

Great ideas guys, thanks. I suspect we'll end up with a drifter, I like that it's a light air sail that we can use from 60 to 180 degrees. Been getting some very pricey quotes as a new sail so I think I'll start looking at some of the used sail lofts for a very good or better condition drifter. Must haves are a wire luff and now and ATN sock.

170% is what all the new sailmakers are quoting for but if I can find a nice used one between 150 to 170% I would be happy.

So here's another question, and of course picture would be appreciated. Where on a HC33 do you put turning blocks aft of the winches?
Damon and David
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1984 HC33 #58
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Postby sv_bruadair » Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:14 pm

What do you guys think of this sail? 1.5oz, 39' luff, 38' leach, 25' foot with ATN in very good+ condition for $600. The correctly sized drifter at 170% would be 43' luff, 42 leach and 25' foot. The correctly sized drifter would also be about 577 square feet while the above is only 460 square feet. For a new drifter with ATN I'm getting quotes ranging from $2750 to $3200. So I'm wondering if loosing 125 square feet would make a huge difference (of course I'm sure it'll make some difference).

What would be an acceptable range in surface area measurement when looking at drifters and cruising chutes? I'm not experienced in light air sails so input, as usual, is always appreciated. Thanks.
Damon and David
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1984 HC33 #58
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www.sv-bruadair.blogspot.com

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Postby sv_bruadair » Wed May 02, 2007 6:49 pm

Steve, I have a question about one of your photos. The block for the spinnaker tack sheet, I see that there is a wire attached to the becket, what is the other end attached to. I actually have one of these blocks in my spares kit, now I know what to use it for.

Thanks



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Postby warmrain » Wed May 02, 2007 7:47 pm

It is the tack line for the Genoa, the line that allows the foot to clear the pulpit... This way the location on the cranze iron does double duty...

Capice'?
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Postby sv_bruadair » Thu May 03, 2007 3:00 am

Capice! Thanks.


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