Prop Shaft removal, Performance Underbody (Telstar Keel)

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Prop Shaft removal, Performance Underbody (Telstar Keel)

Postby tomrenner » Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:02 pm

Does anyone out there have experience on pulling out the prop shaft in a 43 with a telstar keel? I have removed the prop, cut off the pillow block bearing (it rusted itself to the shaft), removed the rubber from the cutless bearing in the strut, removed the forward flange and key, and the prop shaft still will not clear the skeg. According to my calculations, removing the strut will still not give me the clearance needed: the shaft log is 2.5"dia and 28"long - not much lateral wiggle room. Furthermore, the forward end of the shaft is laterally restricted by the exhaust elbow. I am out of ideas. Could it be possible that the shaft was inserted from the cabin, before the installation of the engine?
I started this project just for preventive maintenance reasons. Our beloved Lion Heart (#129) turned 23 and I thought it was high time to replace the cutless brg, the shaft log hose, and the pillow block bearing. OOF - what a pickle i'm in. Anybody got any ideas?
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Re: Prop Shaft removal, Performance Underbody (Telstar Keel)

Postby mimoza » Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:12 pm

Sorry I don't have a 43, but you mentioned the exhaust elbow. If removing that will give you enough wiggle to clear the skeg, then I think you know what you have to do. Good luck.
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Re: Prop Shaft removal, Performance Underbody (Telstar Keel)

Postby tomrenner » Tue Nov 18, 2014 3:42 am

Thanks Cap'n Bri. I guess, more specifically, my question becomes, what else has anyone else had to remove to do this? Possibly the strut?, the exhaust elbow? (which would be a bad, bad removal). I just cannot believe that a boat so well engineered would require any butchery to remove the shaft. When I catch a warm spell, i'll go back to it. I was hoping someone out there had already replaced a cutless bearing and log hose. I will keep you all posted and share the correct procedure when I figure it out.
In the meantime - - anybody ever do this job?
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Re: Prop Shaft removal, Performance Underbody (Telstar Keel)

Postby Bill » Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:45 am

Is there a reason to pull the shaft? Sounds like the original plan was to replace the cutlass bearing. If that is the problem has you tried drilling a small hole in the end of bearing, inserting a dent puller into it and pulling the bearing that way to slide it off the shaft? Sorry if I am off base.
Bill and Lisa
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Hull #23
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Re: Prop Shaft removal, Performance Underbody (Telstar Keel)

Postby tomrenner » Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:44 pm

Hi Bill. Thanks for your reply.
My reasons for pulling the shaft:
1. After 23 years the cutless bearing was worn. Yes, you are correct that the cutless bearing can be removed without pulling the shaft. But it is very difficult. The outer brass shell of the bearing is happily attached to the strut and will have to be cut out.
2. Shaft log: The rubber part of the shaft log to which the stuffing box is attached has been in salt water for 23 years. my feeling is that it would be a really big hole below the waterline if it failed. I want to replace it while Lion Heart is out of the water.
3. The pillow block bearing is also 23 years old. It was fine but had to be cut off the shaft. The inner race is hardened steel, and it rusted itself to the shaft. I wanted to replace it anyway.

Clear cut case of "If it aint broke....", but I think my concern for the shaft log is warranted.

I was hoping someone out there had done this before.

Since I had her built, I have sailed her for 23 years without a single problem. So it is just time for some TLC. Recaulking the decks, new anchor chains, painting inside the bilges and chain lockers, rubber replacement and anything else I find.
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Re: Prop Shaft removal, Performance Underbody (Telstar Keel)

Postby markfnovak » Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:14 am

Hi Tom,
I have a 43 with a Telstar keel as well and have done this. I have a two-piece prop shaft with a cutlass bearing in a strut. The first thing we had to do is unbolt the flanges holding the prop shaft pieces together and remove that pillow block bearing. Next disconnect the shaft seal. And last, remove the bolts holding the strut in place then take the strut off. If you simply want to replace the cutlass bearing you can stop here, but the shaft slides out on one side of the skeg (port side, I seem to recall).

As a side note, I understand you're in the process of replacing your pillow block bearing. It was also frozen on my boat when I got it. In the process of replacing it I determined that the bearing that was in there wasn't really designed for this use. It could take movement along the direction of the shaft, but only a few millimeters. When I looked at how much the engine would likely move on its mounts I determined this allowed movement certainly wasn't enough and contributed to the destruction of the bearing. In addition, the fibreglass holding the support board holding the bearing in place had broken free with the strain. I could just imagine the engine mounts moving a little then all the force of the turning propeller being taken by that little pillow block bearing on that little 2 by 4. So I replaced it with a truck carrier bearing. Something like this (probably not exactly what you need, just to give you an idea):

http://www.class8truckparts.com/Spicer- ... oCHWPw_wcB

We powder coated the bare steel so it would last longer and it hasn't given me any troubles since.

Mark
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Re: Prop Shaft removal, Performance Underbody (Telstar Keel)

Postby tomrenner » Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:50 am

Thanks for your reply.
I wonder if your 2 part shaft was original. It would be helpful to know if someone else cut the shaft to remove it. If so, then I would conclude that the shaft was installed prior to the installation of the engine. It would also be helpful to know where it was cut.
My pillow block bearing was in perfect condition, and there are no signs of strain on the mount. I guess my alignment was perfect. Thanks for the link - I will check it out.

Thanks
Tom
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Re: Prop Shaft removal, Performance Underbody (Telstar Keel)

Postby markfnovak » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:14 am

Tom,
The prop shaft is likely not original as the engine is not. In fact, when I pulled my shaft out I checked it for bending and it was so far out of spec that I had to replace it. I don't recall if that was both pieces or just one.

As you don't have a two-piece shaft I think you'll have to take everything out of your bilge to get it out. You always have the alternative... of taking the engine out to get it out... but who wants to think about that. I did do that, but only to have the engine rebuilt.

Mark
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Re: Prop Shaft removal, Performance Underbody (Telstar Keel)

Postby tomrenner » Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:06 am

Thanks again.
I am not going to pull the engine - it has 3000 hours on it and it is original. It sure looks like they put in the shaft before the engine. I have never seen anything like that before.
I will talk this over with my shipwright tomorrow. I think we will look for a plan to replace the bearings and shaft log tube from the front if we can get enough clearance between the shaft and exhaust stack. It will involve cutting out and then replacing the bulkhead that the shaft runs through. I will deal with the cutless bearing with the strut attached, and if that doesn't work, I will pill the strut. I'll keep you all posted.
Stay tuned for the next chapter of "If It Ain't Broke...."

Tom
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Re: Prop Shaft removal, Performance Underbody (Telstar Keel)

Postby scleary » Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:45 pm

Tom,

You may want to ping Jack Hall at Pantawee marine or Harwood Ives (i have his email address and contacted him recently). I would bet one or both of them could tell you exactly what will be required to remove the shaft. I have contact info for Jack as well (Pantawee Marine).

Best of luck,
Steve
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Re: Prop Shaft removal, Performance Underbody (Telstar Keel)

Postby tomrenner » Fri Nov 28, 2014 1:36 am

Thanks Steve,
If you have their contact info, would you forward it to me?
Tom
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Re: Prop Shaft removal, Performance Underbody (Telstar Keel)

Postby yachtie40 » Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:57 am

[quote="tomrenner"]Hi Bill. Thanks for your reply.
My reasons for pulling the shaft:

2. Shaft log: The rubber part of the shaft log to which the stuffing box is attached has been in salt water for 23 years. my feeling is that it would be a really big hole below the waterline if it failed. I want to replace it while Lion Heart is out of the water.
3. The pillow block bearing is also 23 years old. It was fine but had to be cut off the shaft. The inner race is hardened steel, and it rusted itself to the shaft. I wanted to replace it anyway.

Hi Tom

I bought my 1986 43T about a year ago and the shaft was so restricted that it barely turned. I surmised that the job of fixing it was bigger than I am, so I got my mechanic to do the job and I admit that I did hear lots of swearing inside the boat whilst I cleaned her topsides…
He replaced the "plumbers block", which I think is the same thing as the "pillow block" and also replaced the cutlass bearing and the rubber boot, which is attached to the stuffing box, which had also perished and looked like it could fail at any moment. It cost me $1300 as I recall, which hurt but I kept saying things like "better him than me" and "worth every penny", as work progressed.
I can ask him if you like, how he got around the issues you are facing if you are still wrestling with it?
Cheers George
SV Tondelayo nee Dragon Lady
Sydney Australia
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Re: Prop Shaft removal, Performance Underbody (Telstar Keel)

Postby tomrenner » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:10 pm

Hi George
Thanks for your reply.
Does yours have a performance underbody with the cutlass bearing in the strut? And were you able to get the shaft out past the skeg? That is the problem I face. I need to find out how to get enough room to move the forward end of the shaft to starboard (it hits the aluminum exhaust stack), and allow the aft end of the shaft to pass the port side of the skeg. I really wanted to see if anyone had the answer before I proceed, which will be in the spring (NY, USA).
Removing the strut, Cutting off and replacing the stack, grooving the port side of the skeg are suggestions I have received and may well turn out to be necessary. But as I said, I will keep the community informed on what I find when I get back to it.
Good luck with your 43. You are going to love her.
Tom
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Re: Prop Shaft removal, Performance Underbody (Telstar Keel)

Postby yachtie40 » Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:42 pm

Hi Tom

Tondelayo has a Telstar keel, with a strut and cutlass bearing as you describe located in the "Brewer Bite", between the aft end of the keel and the leading edge of the rudder skeg. I don't believe anyone had to modify the prop shaft tube and I know that the strut and rudder skeg were left unmolested.
Australia has now pretty much shut down for our Summer holidays until the 5th of January, so I will speak to my mechanic after the break and hope that he remembers...

As I recall, just forward of the plumbers block (pillow block) there is a substantial fibreglass rib, about 12" high and 3" thick with a hole in it, which allows the prop shaft pass through it. The mechanic suggested that the shipwright (who was busily replacing 12 seized valves and some skin fittings) cut through the top of the rib, so the shaft could be lifted vertically. After the job was completed it was a relatively simple repair to rebuild the cut away section of the rib, using a small timber infill, woven glass and epoxy. I was assured and believe that the rib has not been significantly compromised by doing this.
My engine is a 72 HP Nanni Mercedes, which may or may not be relevant.
Hope this is some help...
Cheers
George
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Re: Prop Shaft removal, Performance Underbody (Telstar Keel)

Postby tomrenner » Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:54 pm

THanks Again. That is JUST what I wanted to hear. I was planning on cutting and replacing the rib. Easy to do. Did you remove the strut? Or did the shaft clear the skeg with the strut in place?
By the way - the rubber part of the shaft log is a very special piece of purpose built hose, called shaft log hose. Available from Buck Algonquin.

Happy Holidays,
Tom
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