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hanschristian.org • View topic - The new boats, a history lesson please

The new boats, a history lesson please

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The new boats, a history lesson please

Postby brookiesailor1 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:20 pm

We are considering a new 48t (amongst other boats) and wanted to know about the quality compared to the older boats. Are they made by the same yard? Are some of issues been corrected (bilge pumps siphoning etc)? Does anybody have any info on how the new boats are doing? It is a big expense and I want to make sure we are making the right choice.
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Re: The new boats, a history lesson please

Postby mimoza » Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:36 pm

Responses may be few - or even less - because there aren't a lot of data points. This is an expensive boat, so there aren't many built. I would guess that most current owners who are on this site bought 48s built in Taiwan.
I would contact directly the current builder in Thailand to discuss your concerns.
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Re: The new boats, a history lesson please

Postby brookiesailor1 » Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:12 am

Thank you Mimoza.
I am in contact with the builder but wanted a somewhat objective opinion.

Thanks
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Re: The new boats, a history lesson please

Postby boatingbob » Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:11 pm

The HC's are today custom built, and many issues can be discussed upfront. The yard will do it's best to meet your requirements, but actually the area distributors will have to do the rest of the work. This are precious boats, and they are built and equiped with care deserved.

I do not know where you are located, but there is a European dealer (hans-christian-yachts.eu), and USA dealer, (hans-christian-yachts.us). You can get even more info on the Facebook page, hans christian yachts EU.

We will surely do our best to see you in the HC family...
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Re: The new boats, a history lesson please

Postby gahammii » Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:57 pm

I communicated extensively with Jack Hall of Pantawee Marine Co. Ltd. regarding a new build HC48T about 18-24 months ago. I found him to be very responsive and upfront with every question I posed, including some in rather extensive detail. Unlike many other builders I interviewed, Mr. Hall never showed any hesitancy to building the boat the way the customer wants it, within of course the constraints of sound seaworthiness. In my discussions and document exchanges, I never developed any concerns about the quality of the build (in the context of being a mid range Asian constructed boat) relative to prior companies who have built the Hans Christian.

If quality of construction is your concern (especially given the low number of overall boats built by different yards over the years) there is likely no way to satisfy that inquiry other than visiting the yard. I suspended my discussion about a new build prior to reaching that point, and now have a 1994 HC48T under contract in Annapolis. Given what I learned from my research and communication with Mr. Hall (and from watching Valiant Yachts build boats before they shut down), I would suggest timing the hull layup with the dry (less humid) season in Thailand, and then just letting Mr. Hall’s workers get after the rest.

In terms of minimizing your risk, I would be a lot less concerned about the quality of the build under Mr. Hall’s supervision than I would be about getting the completed boat delivered. Thailand had a military coup in 2014 (their 12th I believe) and martial law was not suspended until this month (WSJ, 4.1.15), at least in theory (See Thailand’s Martial Rule, WSJ. 4.7.15). At the time of my discussions with Mr. Hall, the protests over the Prime Minister (herself the sister I believe of the formerly exiled Prime Minister) were just beginning which ultimately led to the coup.

I would consider and address the risk of things outside of the builder’s control, such as the U.S. State Department’s decision to effectively Blacklist Thailand because of its continued use of slave labor in some sectors of the economy (See US. Department of State, Trafficking in Person Report 2014), Thailand’s frequent and disruptive protests (multiple WSJ cites), supplier and shipping disruptions, etc.

I also suggest taking a look at the fact that Baht has strengthened 0.83% against the U.S. dollar since the start of this year, while currencies of other Southeast Asian nations, including Singapore, Indonesia and Malaysia, have weakened as much as 3% against the U.S. dollar in 2015 (See Thai Exporters Seek Relief from Strong Baht), WSJ, 2.11.15). Those are fast movements in the exchange rates given the long lead time for a new build.

Lastly, any dispute prior to delivery will likely be controlled by the Arbitration Rules of the Arbitration Institute Ministry of Justice of Thailand, and not a US Court.

In summary, and as an expression of my opinion only, the volatile exchange rate, the unstable government of Thailand, and the venue and manner of resolving any disputes would far outweigh any concerns I had over the quality of the build.
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Re: The new boats, a history lesson please

Postby boatingbob » Wed May 20, 2015 9:24 am

As a breaking news, we now offer the HC48 TW, a WEST system built version of the 48T. It is built in Europe, Croatia.
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Re: The new boats, a history lesson please

Postby erinnicole » Sun Aug 02, 2015 12:41 am

Hi all

I am new to this forum and the only reason I joined was to view information on Pantwee marine ( and specifically the owner who I do not want to name specifically for liable reasons )the builder of Hans Christan yachts in Thailand

I recently had the unfortunate experience of having them build me a boat and sadly I will tell you that it was not a good experience and ended up costing me way more then the original contract price

From the very beginning I was mislead about delivery dates and the quality of workmanship is poor such as window frames that don't match , sliding windows are milled wrong , bad gel coat amongst many other issues ( structurally the hull was sound )

I finally took the boat incomplete and had it finished elsewhere as it was reported to me by the owner that the land were the company is located is sold and the company was going out of business

I post this as a not a disgruntled former customer but as warning to any one concedering doing business with this company to be aware

In closing I will say that the few employees that were left were not the issue at all but the principal of the company was the issue , I could go into more detail but I think I have said enough and yes to to what the above poster said about doing business in Thailand if there are no problems it's great but if there is problems you are in for a lot of grief
Best of luck
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Re: The new boats, a history lesson please

Postby boatingbob » Sun Aug 02, 2015 6:25 am

Hi errinnicole,

These are serious accusations, and putting them on a table without any proof, is even worse. It would be nice if, when accusing someone in this way, you would at least introduce yourself, and give any proof of such an event. Talking about Pantawee Marine and not naming the owner (for liable reasons) whom we all know very well, is at least silly. Which boat are you talking about? What hull number? HC with sliding windows?

A person who is right would stand up and say what he has to say right in the face of the person he is accusing, and not play hide and seek, throwing mud balls.
Last edited by boatingbob on Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The new boats, a history lesson please

Postby boatingbob » Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:38 am

I am attaching here the e-mail reply on this by Jack Hall, the (unnamed) principal of the Pantawee marine. It is only fair to see the other side of the medal!

quote:
I can only guess who this might be because he is hiding behind a pseudonym and ambiguity in the way he is talking but I think it's the owner of a 26 Lobster Boat. He removed the boat from our yard on his own decision still incomplete. If it is him let's for now just call him by his initials S.B. and he is currently residing in Phuket.


Anyway, there are only 3 questions that he needs to answer honestly as follows;

1. Did he remove the boat from the PML yard by himself and by his own voluntary decision when it was still incomplete even after he was told that it could be finished by PML? - Yes or No?

2. Did he physically inspect the boat IN PERSON before he removed the boat from the yard? (A requirement PML has for all boats prior to them leaving the yard) - Yes or No?

3. And finally, did he sign an acceptance letter for the boat as it was before removing from PML premises? - Yes or No?

He should be cautioned about his answers because we have excellent records, copies of e-mails, etc and a yard full of witnesses but first my accuser has to stop being a gutless wonder and come out from hiding behind his pseudonym and confirm who he is?

If he does confirm names (ie: those of "PML principle" and himself) then he is absolutely correct about one thing, he will indeed be sued.

Thanks again for bringing this to my attention and let's see where it goes! This guy was a problem customer from day one hence we knew that we had to take extra precautions and get everything properly recorded in writing and signed by him to prevent something like this happening. And by the way, if it's the guy I'm thinking of, he has a Thai wife who is also a lawyer which raises the question, if he is so right then why have we never heard anything from his lawyer wife?! In fact, we were led to believe (by him who kept mentioning it) that she was monitoring all the paperwork all the way through up until he removed the boat of his own accord, so what about that little nail-biter?

Best regards,

Jack
unquote
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